jueves, 3 de septiembre de 2015

Indo aryans of south asia a dying people?

Indo aryans of south asia are a dying people in my opinion, slowly but surely the dravdian dna is taking over, the only few surviving orginal indo-aryans live in what is northern pakistan/kashmir now
 
Chitral, Pakistan



Hunza Pakistan:



The pure dardic people the indo aryans of kashmir gilgit and cetral are having small populations with kashmiris having 9 million population ( 6 million in kashmir valley, 1.5 million kashmiri emigrants in azat kashmir and pakistan , and 1.5 million ethnic kashmiris in the kashtvaar , and jammu regions )adding to it 1.5 million dards of gilgit and the 1.5 million nurestani and pashayi dards of afghanestan and 1 million people of chitral ,the total indo aryan or dardic population numbers at around 13 million. i m not sure but i need to check the wikipedia to come at a total tally

These people are Dardic people and not Slavic or Hellenic. Greeks do not commonly have blond hair. Most blond/red haired Greeks are mixed with Illyrians/Albanians not pure Greek. Many Dardic people are naturally blond. If anything, mixing has darkened them. A pure Dard would have white features. 

And yes Haplogroup tests show that most IE speakers share the common haplogroup of R1A1, especially on Y-chromosome lines. Has nothing to do with Germans. Yes the "Aryan=European" myth was started by them, but the genetic tests showing clear common ancestry had nothing to do with the Nazis. 

How would the British be able to leave a genetic imprint in the isolated mountains but not in the mostly flatlands they more easily conquered? Flawed logic. 

I presume by Dardic people speak Dardic or Nuristani languages. Nothing to do with ethnicity again. It is entirely possible for an ethnic group to adopt a foreign language - the fact that I am discussing this in English and that for 2500 years of Indian recorded history, Sanskrit remained a language of elite writing and never spoken by anyone  -  means languages can be adopted, used, discarded at will and tells nothing about ethnicity.

Most Greeks and Macedonians of alexander's time were short, dark haired yes - but every army included other nationalities. Many would clan together and settle in small communities when the army disbands.

Dardic and Nuristani languages are probably of Parthian or Scythian origin than Rig Vedic - i.e later Indo Iranian migrations.

Mitochondrial and Y chromosome tests are mostly still confusing. There is no doubt that in the plains and cities, there has been so much mixing that nothing conclusive can come out - since previous populations contribute the majority of the DNA. 

Isolated small communities like Swat valley and Kashmir might have predominant populations persisting from historical settlements. But when that settlement ocurred is by no means possible to ascertain now - and certainly cannot be equated with Rig Vedic people. It could be from any time from 1500 BC to 500 AD or even later. The least one would expect, if they were Rig Vedic - is that they followed the Rig Veda in recorded history. 

While I am not a linguist (and not even a historian except by hobby) I would think Punjabi is far closer to Rig Vedic Sanskrit since it is directly derived from Sanskrit. Whole of Pakistan and India speaks Indo European only since even Tamil is about 50% Sanskrit.

Dardic languages might show derivation from ancient proto Indo European languages which shows a much more ancient split which remained as such because Nuristan, Swat and Kashmir are isolated and so some of the valleys speak in a more ancient dialect. Swat valley is a little too small a place for a people who invaded all the way to Bihar. Maybe a small segment of Rig Vedic people went into Swat and lost contact with the rest of the Rig Vedic people, it is possible. But to prove that, these people before conversion to other religions should have been shown to be practicing the Vedic religion. Unfortunately the swat valley was invaded by the Greeks under Alexander in around 300 BC. It was a centre of Hindu and Budhist learning and most people were Budhist. After that we don't know much history, except that during Ghazni times it was invaded by the Pushto speakers. Pushto is also a Indo European language of Irani origin. There was mass conversion to Islam.

Kalami and Kohistani are still spoken in remote valleys by small numbers. If we assume that these are the remnants of earlier people before Pushtun invasion, they could be either of Rig Vedic people or of Greek people. Their physical appearance rather suggests origin from Magyar or Russian mercenaries from the Greeks, but it could be that before mixing, the rig Vedic people looked like the swat people who don't look much different from other Iranians and Pakhtuns to me at least, except for the odd blond hair.

Swat valley had a distinct Bronze age culture between 1500 BC and 500BC. That could be settlement from BMAC after desertification of that place. And could be the source of the Swat people. 

Although I am trying to see if the Vedic people came from elsewhere, current belief is that they came from the Punjab. What little I have read of Veda in English fits well with origin in Punjab and NWFP and Afghanistan. Time overlaps with the Swat burial  culture though between 1200 and 600 BC. The link definitely needs exploring.

^I have researched a lot on languages, even one of my essays was on languages of south asia and central asia, and I can say that a language like Kosher Kashmiri which is a dardic language is much closer to original  Rig Vedic Sanskrit.  A language like Punjabi developed much later under the  Dramatic Prakrit period (medieval India). If any thing a language like Hindko which is spoken in NWFP of pakistan is actually a much older form of (punjabi) but even Hindko decends from the early rig vedic sanskrit which was spoken in the Gandhara/Peshawar Valley region. The Dardic languages have been almost untouched from outside influence and one can clearly see the connection between them and Rig Vedas

Also Vedic people were not punjabis, they might have settled in the Upper Indus area of present day punjab, but they certainly did not originate there

They are NOT White or even Indo-Aryan, blue eyes and blond hair is extremely rare even for Kalash or North Pakistan, majority have dark hair and eyes, this is a very complex subject, Indians actually have the highest European blood outside of countries considered culturally white (upper caste Hindus and Sikhs not Muslims because Islam was brought to the lower caste, some of these castes are said to be of pure European origin), the Pakistan region was all Buddhist, Hindu, or Sikh and fled to modern day India far before the partition (no records or borders), the ones with land fled after or during the partition because they were resisting, Pakistanis today are mainly followers of a rebel leader from central India and went to the Pakistan region for land and money, only people in that region today that did not move are the Kalash more financial reasons, there’s MANY tribes like these in Nepal and India with larger numbers than Kalash, but go unnoticed because of their large population of their countries. Follow the caste not the region, the Sikh massacre made Hindus and Sikhs in Kashmir and neighboring states to come a little south to Punjab or Jammu, they used to be a majority (little more south), north is successful and has a lot of immigrants and the partition switching, Im American, and almost every time Alexander the Great story is brought up, he has nothing to do with the Kalash and Alexander wasn’t even Greek, that's proof people have no Idea what their talking about, the Kalash are of Mongolian blood, they resemble ethnic Hispanic (who were Mongolian), but Hispanics are WAY lighter, the only people whose looks are being maintained are people practicing the caste system, if you go up to a Hindu they can automatically tell you what the person's caste is based on looks, and plus if you put all upper caste Hindus and Sikh together or take all the natives of one north Indian state that would be more than ALL of any south or central Asian country, so no Indo-Aryan are not disappearing 

Dont be confused blonde hair has nothing to do with genes, in Asia it is mainly brought out by temperature and malnourishment, if you look at Asian decent America, NONE will have light hair, and that has nothing to do with Indo-Aryan genes 

This is Anatomy 101, genes dont disappear and remain in the blood and passed on forever, unless their totally different people and think their something else, the history of Pakistan region applies to the natives not majority that live there, and the only natives are Kalash not the rest so you may think its disappearing, the Kalash (you could say kinda practice a caste system) and don't mix, that's why it seems like the Kalash are the only Indo-Aryan for Pakistanis, because the rest are once again of central India descent and mix because they don't believe in a caste system and mix
Also Caucasian and White are two different topics, ethnic Caucasians and Aryan were dark featured and said to be from the middle east, the words Caucasian and Aryan were adopted by Celtic blooded Whites
the Dravidian are the ones disappearing, did you know Indian subcontinent had a slave trade, majority of the Dravidian were put in the slave trade to  Middle East and West Indies, but they never looked like stereotypical Africans, that's why Pakistan and India is Caucasian today, because Caucasian boned people are mainly left, but the countries still has a mix of races (every country does though) 
I also dont understand why Mughul is brought up, he was Mongolian and he later accepted Turkish culture, ALL the clans of the Mughul empire were Mongols not Turks, one additional clan was added later on (once they got to Turkey) but that clan never step foot on Asia 

So, why dont indians look anything like european than? even the so called high caste would at best look like average pakistanis. Pakistanis overall have higher west asian and west eurasian than indians, this is proven by genetics and among pakistanis it is the northern and pashtun people who have the most west asian and west eurasian genetics. I dont why indian nationalists always want muslims to be related to low caste, this is not true at all...


From "Rig Veda, a Historical analysis" by Srikant Talageri.
The predominant dynasty in the Rigveda is the dynasty of DevavAta, one of the descendants of the ancient king Bharata.
The kings in this dynasty, as we have already seen, are:
DevavAta
SRnjaya
VadhryaSva
DivodAsa
Pratardana
Pijavana
DevaSravas
SudAs
Sahadeva
Somaka
These kings are Bharatas, but they are also PUrus: according to the PurANas, the Bharatas are a branch of the PUrus; and this is confirmed in the Rigveda, where both DivodAsa (I.130.7) and SudAs (I.63.7) are called PUrus, and where the Bharata composer Parucchepa DaivodAsI repeatedly speaks as a PUru (I.129.5; 131.4).
Some other names of kings in the Rigveda who appear in the Puranic lists as PUru kings (some belonging to the Bharata dynasty of DevavAta, and some not) are:
AjamILha (IV.44.6).
Dhvasra/Dhvasanti and PuruSanti (I.112.23; IX.58.3).
          (SuSanti and PurujAti of the Puranic lists.)
Mudgala (X.102.2, 5, 6, 9).
RkSa (VIII.68.15, 16; 74.4, 13). 
Srutarvan (VIII.74.4, 13; X.49.5). 
Vidathin (IV.16.13; V.29.11). 
Santanu (X.98.1, 3, 7).
KuSika (III.26.1).
read this for more..
http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch5.htm

Also Pakishield....DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL AUTHORS OF THE RIG VEDA?
Here is a sample information


Please realize how much knowledge you are missing when you run after albinos. 



(Source: allempires.com)
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